Persian (Farsi) angur or angarah

[Dr. Goodword]

I need the meaning of Persian or Farsi angur or angarah for a Good Word I'm working on. It should refer to a vegetable or fruit--cucumber, grape, or watermelon. Does any know what it is?

[Stargzer]

I found a Farsi dictionary but it translates to Farsi script, not a romanization.

From a quick search, angur seems to mean grape, angarah, melon. Hey, a larger word for a larger food item!

Borage

... It is quite amazing that Germanic languages have two different names for cucumber, which despite their similarity cannot be proven to be related.

English cucumber and Dutch komkommer can be traced back to Latin cucumis “cucumber”; that name cannot be explained further, but is has survived into modern botanical nomenclature, where the vegetable cucumber is known as Cucumis sativus. Comparatively few Romance languages have conserved the Latin word, e.g., French concombre and Catalan cogombre. In contrast, Italian cetriolo “cucumber” derives from Latin citrullus “watermelon”, which in turn might be related to citrus (see lemon), and the Iberic name of cucumber, pepino, relates to Latin pepo “pumpkin”.

On the other hand, German Gurke or Norwegian agurk derive from Late Greek angourion [αγγουριον] “cucumber”, which either belongs to Old Greek aoros [αωρος] “green, immature”, or is a loan from Persian angarah “melon”. The Greek word was transferred to many Slavonic languages (Czech okurka, Russian ogurets [огурец], Polish ogórek) and entered Modern German as a loan from Polish; from there, it spread to many tongues of Northern Europe: Swedish gurka, Norwegian agurk, Lithuanian agurkas, Latvian gurķis and Estonian kurk. English gherkin also belongs to that group.

Quite confusingly, the German name Gurkenkraut is also used for dill, not because dill smells like cucumber (which it doesn’t), but because German cooks almost automatically use dill to flavour cucumber dishes.

Wikipedia entry for Gherkin:

The word is of Persian origin, angārah, passing through Greek and Polish, and entering the English language from early modern Dutch, in which the diminutive gurkkijn or agurkkijn denotes a small cucumber. (The word ‘pickle’ itself is derived from the Dutch pekel, a salt or acid preserving fluid.) The similarly pronounced Swedish word, “gurka”, actually means cucumber, cognate with German “Gurke”.

angur:

THE MYSTIC POET, Rumi, tells of three foreigners traveling down a road together. They come across a drachma on the road, and picking it up together, each declares what he wishes to do with it. The first says he will buy `inab, which is Arabic for grapes; the second, a Persian, says, "No! We must buy angur;' Farsi for grapes. The third, a Roman, exclaims it must be vitis?Latin for grapes. They begin to fight, and soon a journey distinguished by camaraderie descends into a fisticuff of animosity. Rumi remarks that all they needed was a translator to explain that they all really wanted the same thing.

See a variation of this story here.

A page containing a reference to "The grape festival or "Jashn e angur" of Qazvin."


A recipe:

B A S U N D I :

Ingredients :

2 liters of milk
250 grams sugar.
Method :

Take heavy pan-copper bottom aluminum and at a time put ½ liter milk to boil and stir it all the while, after it comes to boil let is simmer all the time sliding the cream... layer on one side.
Add sugar mix well after the sugar syrup is completely absorbed in the milk remove the kadal from fire and carefully pour the contents in another vessel.
Repeat the above process for all the milk, add sugar as per taste and add dressing as per taste.
In order to make fruit basundi fresh fruit pieces may be added or grapes may be add to make angur basundi.

I also ran across the Farsi word Feringhee:

from Persian 'Farangi': from the word Frankish: a person from Europe. The first encounter with Western Europe was during Charlemagne who was King of Franks. From that time the word Farangi means European, especially Western European. Also after the first Crusade this word appeared frequently in Persian and Arabic literature. (in Arabic as 'Faranji' because they could not pronounce /g/) . The Ottoman Turks pronounced it as Feringhee.

This word sounded familiar to me!

Wikipedia Ferengi:

The Ferengi are a fictional extraterrestrial race from the Star Trek universe ...

Etymology

"Ferengi" and similar is an Arabic name for European traders, or for Westerners in general. Both the Arabic word and the name are similarly pronounced [fɛˈrɪŋɡi]. The name is likely derived from the Arabic word faranj or ifranj, "Franks", or possibly the Persian word farangi, meaning "foreigner". In Ethiopia, ferenj or ferenji has the same meaning. The Greeks sometimes use fragoi (φράγκοι) as a slur against western Europeans. The term was used as a partially derogatory term in India to denote the British, especially by those resisting British rule; however, the word is often used in an affectionate way. The Star Trek usage is derived from the above.

All roads lead to science fiction ...

[gailr]

I can't help with Dr. Goodword's request, but my curiosity is piqued for this upcoming GWOTD.


Stargzer's dissertation reminds me how many cultural names began as stranger/foreigner/savage in the bestowing language, and how many self-determined cultural names mean people/human beings or the like.

From my own line: Welsh

Middle English Walische, from Old English Wælisc, from Wealh, foreigner, Welshman, Celt, perhaps of Celtic origin.

O.E. Wilisc, Wylisc (W.Saxon), Welisc, Wælisc (Anglian and Kentish), from Wealh, Walh "Celt, Briton, Welshman, non-Germanic foreigner;" ... Among the English, Welsh was used disparagingly of inferior or substitute things, hence Welsh rabbit (1725), ...

as opposed to the Cymry, ~ compatriots.


All the Welsh etymologies I've read point to further links with the *other* branch of the family, which may explain my affinity for 'foreign', tuxedo-wearing fangsters...

[Dr. Goodword]

I'll note it in the archived version of gherkin.

[skinem]

Stargzer's dissertation reminds me how many cultural names began as stranger/foreigner/savage in the bestowing language, and how many self-determined cultural names mean people/human beings or the like.

I have often wondered the same thing. Virtually every native american tribal name for themselves that I am aware of translates literally to "the people" thus relegating everyone else to some lesser status.