Flat-footed

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scw1217
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Flat-footed

Postby scw1217 » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:11 pm

I am interested in why this word has what appears to be two opposing meanings -

1. to stand firm
2. to be unprepared

- and why it would have evolved this way.

From Dictionary.com
flat-foot·ed (fltftd)
adj.
Of or afflicted with flatfoot.

Steady on the feet.
Informal. Without reservation; forthright: a flat-footed refusal.
Unable to react quickly; unprepared: The new product caught their competitors flat-footed.
From Online Etymology Dictionary
Flat-footed "unprepared" is 1912 U.S. baseball slang, on notion of "not on one's toes; earlier it meant "straightforwardly" (1828), from notion of "standing firmly."
And from another webpage
flat-footed
A player who is stationary when the opposition is moving towards him at a rapid rate is said to be flat footed.

Eg: "Walter Little was unable to keep up as he was caught flat-footed from the start."

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Re: Flat-footed

Postby sluggo » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:53 pm

I am interested in why this word has what appears to be two opposing meanings -

1. to stand firm
2. to be unprepared

- and why it would have evolved this way.

From Dictionary.com
flat-foot·ed (fltftd)
adj.
Of or afflicted with flatfoot.

Steady on the feet.
Informal. Without reservation; forthright: a flat-footed refusal.
Unable to react quickly; unprepared: The new product caught their competitors flat-footed.
From Online Etymology Dictionary
Flat-footed "unprepared" is 1912 U.S. baseball slang, on notion of "not on one's toes; earlier it meant "straightforwardly" (1828), from notion of "standing firmly."
And from another webpage
flat-footed
A player who is stationary when the opposition is moving towards him at a rapid rate is said to be flat footed.

Eg: "Walter Little was unable to keep up as he was caught flat-footed from the start."
Sure wouldn't be the first English expression to bear witness against itself, but somehow the first expression neither "feels" right nor have I ever heard it used this way. Flatfooted is usually meant as a negative as I hear. I suspect the 1828 usage is now archaic --one of those terms that has turned itself inside-out, such as our previous discussion on shop?
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scw1217
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Postby scw1217 » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:19 pm

Interesting conversation. I had never heard "shop" used to mean "sell". However, I have heard "flat-footed" used with both definitions. My mother's pastor always says, "We'll stand here flat-footed." She is how this whole thing got started. (Always blame it on your mom!) When looking it up today for her, I found out it had to seemingly opposing meanings. I think he was meaning "steady" in his use of it.

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Postby Perry » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:57 am

I think that you have given us the evolution with your own first posting.

If flat-footed means standing firm, then by extension it also means immovable. If one is immovable, then one has too much standing inertia to effectively meet a new situation as it arises. In other words, immovable is the opposite of nimble. So to be caught flat-footed is to be in a state unprepared for change.
"Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening all at once. Lately it hasn't been working."
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Postby scw1217 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:45 pm

I think that you have given us the evolution with your own first posting.

If flat-footed means standing firm, then by extension it also means immovable. If one is immovable, then one has too much standing inertia to effectively meet a new situation as it arises. In other words, immovable is the opposite of nimble. So to be caught flat-footed is to be in a state unprepared for change.
That was very well put! Thanks!

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Postby gailr » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:31 pm

Judging from both his avatar and nimble responses, Perry is never caught flat-footed.

I also associate this word with the gumshoes in hardboiled detective fiction. A condition caused by walking a beat?

-gailr
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Last edited by gailr on Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Perry » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:39 pm

And judging by hers, Gail is all-seeing and wise. :D
"Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening all at once. Lately it hasn't been working."
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Postby sluggo » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:07 am

... In other words, immovable is the opposite of nimble....
Jack be immovable, Jack be lethargic;
Jack utterly fail to upwardly propel himself at an angle sufficient to eschew certain collision with the former baseball field of the San Francisco Giants...
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Postby Perry » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:12 am

Great rhyme, but what does "certain collision with the former baseball field of the San Francisco Giants..." have to do with candlestick?
"Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening all at once. Lately it hasn't been working."
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Postby sluggo » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:34 pm

Great rhyme, but what does "certain collision with the former baseball field of the San Francisco Giants..." have to do with candlestick?
The Jints yusta play at Candlestick Park. These daze they have succumbed to one o' them corporeal names.
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Postby Stargzer » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:03 pm

Judging from both his avatar and nimble responses, Perry is never caught flat-footed.

I also associate this word with the gumshoes in hardboiled detective fiction. A condition caused by walking a beat?

-gailr
a dame who can't give up her stilettos...
Well, actually, Sherlock Holmes was the gumshoe to the flatfoot Inspector Lestrade ... although, strictly speaking, Lestrade might also have been a gumshoe at Scotland Yard. However, he was most likely a flatfoot first.
Regards//Larry

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Postby skinem » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:38 pm

To (poorly) rephrase Mark Twain...One of the coldest winter evenings I spent was a summer evening at Candlestick.

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Postby gailr » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:49 pm

The old bit about 15 minutes of action crammed into three hours is apt. It's also apt to leave one flat-bunned, rather than flat-footed.

-gailr

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Postby Perry » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:47 am

Charlie Watts once remarked that the Stones' (then) 25 years together was 5 years of playing and 20 years of knocking down, travelling, setting up and hanging around.
"Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening all at once. Lately it hasn't been working."
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Postby Ferrus » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:26 pm

Seems to have gained popularity amongst geek circles because of its salient position in D&D.


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