I was reminded of this oldie-but-goodie today upon hearing some radio talking head refer to "Scalia and Thomas"; due to his native speech patterns (which I presume to be New York or southern New England), it came out "ska-leer-an-tom-as", inserting R as a sort of liaison between the two vowels.
Also heard in (some? which?) UK speech, e.g. John Lennon singing "I sawr a film today o boy" in A Day in the Life.
To me, inserting R between vowel ends would seem an extra conscious analytical step, as it's not part of either surrounding word, yet native speakers seem unaware of it when pointed out. Wonder if anyone has an idea how this came about? Why R?
what R you saying?
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- Grand Panjandrum
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what R you saying?
Stop! Murder us not, tonsured rumpots! Knife no one, fink!
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- Great Grand Panjandrum
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Hmm. In pronouncing "I saw a" and "I sawr a" (both with the 'a' pronounced as a schwa (ə)) I can detect that in speaking, adding the "r" smooths out the stop between "saw" and "a." In singing this can be smoothed out by changing pitch without inserting a full stop.
Regards//Larry
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee
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- Grand Panjandrum
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-and indeed in speech we do usually change pitch between such words, whether the R is used or not. Occasionally I hear someone use a glottal stop but I perceive that as individual rather than regional.In singing this can be smoothed out by changing pitch without inserting a full stop.
Stop! Murder us not, tonsured rumpots! Knife no one, fink!
We're talking about an intrusive r.
See this link. ( I hope it works this time)
It gives several examples that explain the three linked traits:
r-dropping, r-retaining and r-inserting from various Beetles songs.
It is also a feature of Cockney and several other English dialects.
Cheers,
See this link. ( I hope it works this time)
It gives several examples that explain the three linked traits:
r-dropping, r-retaining and r-inserting from various Beetles songs.
It is also a feature of Cockney and several other English dialects.
Cheers,
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- Grand Panjandrum
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w@w, great link and site! Thanks bnj, that's the mix-it-up I was seeking.We're talking about an intrusive r.
See this link. ( I hope it works this time)
It gives several examples that explain the three linked traits:
r-dropping, r-retaining and r-inserting from various Beetles songs.
It is also a feature of Cockney and several other English dialects.
Cheers,
I take issue with one of "Ben"'s music samples though- Ray Davies very definitely sang "Par" for Pa, at least my ear has always heard it. Of course analysing pop lyrics is problematic- there are any number of reasons such an affectation might be recorded- Davies may have just been having a joke about failing to rhyme with car, as the writer allows. "Mar" could have followed from its successor.
Then there's Lennon's "What's the New Mary Jane" (too bizarre to be released in Beatle days but on Anthology 3), where he goes out of his way to Americanise the R in party... probably only he knew why, if there was a why.
-all of which led me to an unusually didactic Wiki entry on rhotic vs not rhotic speech. Ain't the internets grand!
Stop! Murder us not, tonsured rumpots! Knife no one, fink!
Just the other day at the grocery store I remarked that I was buying a "ruterbegger" (rutabega - which incidentally was labeled a "turnip" and I do know in the UK they are labeled as such but honestly this is Florida). If this behavior is listed as a UK habit then why do all my older relatives do it?
Suzanne D. Williams, Author
http://www.feelgoodromance.com
http://www.feelgoodromance.com
Ah the R drift; there where it's not supposed to be, missing where it should be. It seems to happen in isolated, whether by ecomomics or locale, communities. I hear an R at the end of No, in Austrailian, and then there's the great mid-west wa[r]sh.
mark a-great-idear-for-a-Havahd-study Bailey
mark a-great-idear-for-a-Havahd-study Bailey
Today is the first day of the rest of your life, Make the most of it...
kb
But if you order a turnip here you will not get a rutabega. In fact, they will look at you funny because turnips always come with the greens. However, rutabegas do not. I should also say that when ordering turnips here, most think of the greens themselves and not the root. In fact, often the greens have no turnip root in them.a rutabega is a turnip, rather it started as a turnip crossed with a brassica [cabbage].
mark the-confuson-is-logical Bailey
Suzanne D. Williams, Author
http://www.feelgoodromance.com
http://www.feelgoodromance.com
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- Great Grand Panjandrum
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A betzal pretzel? Sounds delish!And in the scallions' eponymous Ashkelon, they are simply called green onions (betzal yarok i.e. בצל ירוק ).
Regards//Larry
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee
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