Magpie

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Dr. Goodword
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Magpie

Postby Dr. Goodword » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:41 pm

• magpie •

Pronunciation: mæg-pai • Hear it!

Part of Speech: Noun

Meaning: A common European black and white bird, known for its chattering (see picture).

Notes: Only one derivation of today's Good Word has been proffered over the course of its existence, an abstract noun, magpiety, meaning "talkativeness, garrulity" or "pseudo-piety". It was last used tongue-in-cheek in Websters' First New Intergalactic Wickedary of the English Language (Mary Daly 1987): "Magpiety, the impious impropriety of Prudes; irreverence for sir-reverence; Nagpiety's Hagpiety".

In Play: Magpies are noted not only for their chattering, but for their tendency to collect shiny objects: "The interior of Maggie Bird's house, filled with chachkas, gewgaws, knickknacks and other whatnots, reflects her natural magpie tendencies." However, they are just as well known for their chatter: "Horace threw a stone at the magpies chattering loudly in the tree in his front yard."

Word History: The first element of today's word is Mag, a nickname for Margaret. Margaret was long used in proverbs and slang for qualities historically associated with women, in this case "idle chatter", as in Magge tales "tall tales". French followed the same line of thinking with its word for magpie: margot, the nickname for Marguerite.

The second component of this original compound noun came from an earlier name of the bird, Old French pie from Latin pica "magpie", the feminine of picus "woodpecker". These words were derived from the PIE root (s)peik- "woodpecker, magpie" with a Fickle S, which we see in German Specht "woodpecker". We see the S in spike, but not in pike, both known for their pointedness, just like the beaks of woodpeckers and magpies. Pie also occurs initially in piebald "bicolored", especially black and white like a magpie. Bald refers to the white markings on birds and animals, from Irish bal "spot, marking". (Thank you Kathleen McCune, now of Sweden, for recommending this fascinating bird name. I would have never guessed I could find this much of a story.)
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call_copse
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Re: Magpie

Postby call_copse » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:39 am

What I would most associate with magpies is:
One for sorrow,
Two for joy,
Three for a girl,
Four for a boy,
Five for silver,
Six for gold,
Seven for a secret,
never been told.

Traditionally that is what we recite on seeing one or more of these birds. Instinctively I look for a second magpie if I see a single one, to guard against the sorrow. They seem social birds as you almost always find the second.
Iain

LukeJavan8
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Re: Magpie

Postby LukeJavan8 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:05 pm

I've heard about them all my life, in legends,
stories, etc., never seen/heard one. We don't
have them in these parts.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----

Perry Lassiter
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Re: Magpie

Postby Perry Lassiter » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:47 pm

We have crows, very big crows, hard to distinguish the biggest from ravens. Don't remember seeing magpies. Don't they also have a reputation as thieves?
pl

LukeJavan8
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Re: Magpie

Postby LukeJavan8 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:37 pm

Yes, I think so, especially shiny things.
Ravens. We have them, as well as black birds,
red wing blackbirds, detestable starlings, and
grackles which are even worse. Get a
group of grackles screeching and it will drive
you bonkers.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----

bnjtokyo

Re: Magpie

Postby bnjtokyo » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:15 am

I don't know the definition of the "Land of Flat Water" but Google suggests in might be Nebraska. If so, you should be able to find black-bill magpies (Pica pica) in the western part of the state. Its range does not extend into Louisiana.

Neither of you should be able to find ravens (Corvus corax) in your home neighborhoods as its range extends only slightly east of the Rockies and an arm down the Appalachians (in the US, Canada is a different story).

LukeJavan8
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Re: Magpie

Postby LukeJavan8 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:12 pm

Land of Flat Water is a translation of Nebraska in the Omaha
Indian tongue. It refers to the Platte River which runs thru
the state. It is a very shallow, but very long tributary of
the Missouri River. It is often jokingly referred to as
'a mile wide and an inch deep', and "too thin to plough and too
thick to drink'.

As for ravens, we certainly have corvux corax. They must
be migrating. I checked pics on google images and
on Wikipedia, the map suggest they are here. So they must
be increasing the spread of their territory. At least in Nebraska.
Where did you get your info, which article on Google. It might need to be updated,
or maybe our birds have interbred (which I don't think
possible) or maybe we have a subspecies.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----

bnjtokyo

Re: Magpie

Postby bnjtokyo » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:19 pm

Thanks for clarifying your location. I took my range information from my copy of Field Guide to the Birds of North America, 2nd ed. (1987) National Geographic Society. The maps are small, but it seems to show the raven's range extending across Wyoming but not into Nebraska. The Audubon Society's Encyclopedia of North American Birds (1987) says its range is "south through w. U.S. to s. Baja Calif. and Nicaragua; c. and e. N. America to Minn., Wisc., n. Mich., c. Ont., s. Que. and Me. and south in Appalachian Mtns, to n.w. Ga. . . ." Elsewhere in the same article it says "in Far West in Rocky Mtns. and
great Basin west to Calif . . . with the extermination of the bison, on whose carcasses it fed, disappeared in Kans. and Okla."

Finally, for more recent information, the maps at this website
http://avibase.bsc-eoc.org/species.jsp? ... F4&sec=map
say it is "rare" in Nebraska, S. Dakota and Iowa.

Note that in the opinion of this casual birder, it is hard to distinguish a crow from a raven at a glance. (In fact, despite ravens being common in some of the places I have lived, I am not confident that I have ever seen one.) You have to look carefully at the tail, throat and flight pattern to distinguish between ravens and crows. Here in Tokyo, we have two species of crows, the carrion crow, Corvus corone, and the jungle crow, Corvus macrorhynchos, that are hard to tell apart. The main difference is in the thickness of the bill.

LukeJavan8
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Re: Magpie

Postby LukeJavan8 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:29 pm

I appreciate your research and getting back to me. From what
you say, and from all the various black species of birds
around here, I may never have seen one either. I saw
some on the Tower of London (you know, they say that
if the ravens leave there, the monarchy will fall) and probably
have just assumed the large black ones are ravens and not
a large crow or some other vintage. I don't know flight
patterns and the like, so I will have to consult some local
experts around here and see if they can help. But thanks
for 'quirking' my curiosity.


https://www.google.com/search?q=tower+o ... Q&dpr=1.25

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravens_of_ ... _of_London

http://www.hrp.org.uk/TowerOfLondon/stories/theravens



Do you follow Game of Thrones? There is a boy in it
named Bran. He sees a 3 eyed Raven and in Celtic Welsh
Bran means raven.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----

Perry Lassiter
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Re: Magpie

Postby Perry Lassiter » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:57 am

In English, bran is a flake.

LA does have starlings. When I was in high school, I could look out the window and watch starlings cover the golf course across the street.

It does seems crows have gotten larger in recent years. I had wondered whether some were ravens or if crows got that big. Thanks for the data.
pl

LukeJavan8
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Re: Magpie

Postby LukeJavan8 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:52 pm

The black ones we have here are larger than
Cooper's hawks. Thinner but bigger.

Not Ravens, then crows are getting larger for sure.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----

misterdoe
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Re: Magpie

Postby misterdoe » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:01 am

I always associate "magpie" with those old cartoon characters Heckle and Jeckle. :)

LukeJavan8
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Re: Magpie

Postby LukeJavan8 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:50 pm

For sure, they are a very clear image for me as well.
And they transfer (for me) to Spy vs. Spy in Mad Magazine.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----

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Re: Magpie

Postby misterdoe » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:54 pm

:o I had forgotten all about them! Were they actually supposed to be magpies? Or was it just the look that make them stand out? :?

LukeJavan8
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Re: Magpie

Postby LukeJavan8 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:46 am

I don't know what they were, but the images always
went with the magpie cartoons in my head.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----


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